Curse

haggus71 · Sep 10, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Erm...said this on another thread.

When it first came out, I argued for changes, but now that the "newness" has worn off.....meh. Rather play Factions or Nightfall. I got the heroes, and that's all I care about(Livia...oh Livia..).

Titles aren't required. The Djinn has one skill. Immolate(yawn). Rather have a Dual attune ele that knew how to use Rodgort's and have that skill slot for something useful. You are handicapping yourself for a fast-moving Flesh Golem with a mediocre ele skill. And at its MAX it's lvl 20. Yawn?

Some of you are arguing that PUGs won't let you into a group. PUGs. Guys responsible for Healing Breeze wammos and Naruto sins. Get a decent guild. If I am looking at an elite mission, I can wait a few days to get a guild group together, rather than go through the frustration of build calling for people that usually don't know how the builds even work. For just about all missions, even in GWEN, you can go through doing H/H with skills from the big three without any GWEN skills. If you have a problem with PUGs...C'mon. It has nothing to do with the skills. Most are casual players that see the new skills, go "Ooooo!", and want everyone to use it. Most use them to cover up their own deficiencies with an extra body. If they are requiring it, you don't want to be on that team, anyway.

lord dragon · Sep 10, 2007, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggus71

Erm...said this on another thread.

When it first came out, I argued for changes, but now that the "newness" has worn off.....meh. Rather play Factions or Nightfall. I got the heroes, and that's all I care about(Livia...oh Livia..).

Titles aren't required. The Djinn has one skill. Immolate(yawn). Rather have a Dual attune ele that knew how to use Rodgort's and have that skill slot for something useful. You are handicapping yourself for a fast-moving Flesh Golem with a mediocre ele skill. And at its MAX it's lvl 20. Yawn?

Some of you are arguing that PUGs won't let you into a group. PUGs. Guys responsible for Healing Breeze wammos and Naruto sins. Get a decent guild. If I am looking at an elite mission, I can wait a few days to get a guild group together, rather than go through the frustration of build calling for people that usually don't know how the builds even work. For just about all missions, even in GWEN, you can go through doing H/H with skills from the big three without any GWEN skills. If you have a problem with PUGs...C'mon. It has nothing to do with the skills. Most are casual players that see the new skills, go "Ooooo!", and want everyone to use it. Most use them to cover up their own deficiencies with an extra body. If they are requiring it, you don't want to be on that team, anyway.

When they are the only teams available, kinda a moot point.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

haggus71 · Sep 10, 2007, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Read the comment about "Get a decent guild" and learn to live without instant gratification.

lord dragon · Sep 10, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggus71

Read the comment about "Get a decent guild" and learn to live without instant gratification.

I guess GWEN and you are now telling me to leave my friends? Interesting.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

Sarevok Thordin · Sep 10, 2007, 01:52 PM // 13:52

I kinda detest the huge grind as well, who knows, maybe they'll fix it like the kurzick/luxon title tracks.

TabascoSauce · Sep 10, 2007, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Instant gratification =/= clearing Drakkar Lake again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again, and being rewarded for it with superpowerful skills, not vanity items which noone objects to. We want you to have your vanity items, but superpowerful skills tied to grind breaks the original premise of the game.

What part of skill > time are you missing? This is grind, and it breaks the original concept of the game every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Mordakai · Sep 10, 2007, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

What part of skill > time are you missing? This is grind, and it breaks the original concept of the game every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Skill > time does not apply to PvE skills. Reasoning: You are not "competing" in a PUG, you are helping.

Also, I'm doing just fine at Guild Wars with Rank 2 Ursan Blessing. I'm not going to "grind" to increase it just for vanities sake!

TabascoSauce · Sep 10, 2007, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Mordakai, if you want that kind of an experience, then choose an appropriate game - for example WoW has 70 levels of increasing power.

Guild Wars started as a no-grind MMO, based on skill. We did not invent the
"skill > time" text blurb we keep mentioning.

This game maxes out at level 20, which you can achieve in a few days at most.

Maxxing out on any other MMO? Not like this one.

You are saying:

Quote:

I'm not going to "grind" to increase it just for vanities sake!

Go read "Finish Him!" Vanity? 80 damage uninterruptable shout that also causes deep wound and breached armor is not vanity.

You can get that by clearing Drakkar Lake again and again and again etc etc etc. So, this is supposed to be a game extender? What genius thought that was better than more of the game? More zones and towns?

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Lourens · Sep 10, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Thats why GW brought " PVP "
And all those extra o so powerfull skills dont matter much
I only like having 100hp extra while in norn land
and the Ruby Djinn ok it sucks and costs a skill slot
what is all the upset about
PvP can be as fun as PvE try it sometimes

GW is still al about skilzz

a noob cant survive longer with 100hp extra then an experienced player

so dont yawn at ncsoft or go play WoW or Lineage if u dare

I got almost lvl 5 vanguard for my armor

freekedoutfish · Sep 10, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord dragon

All of this would be a moot point if either they didn't exist or were not tied to title. As it is now. This happens because of the title huggers.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

OMG what part of these pve only skills dont you understand?

Yes they exist and yes they are oober powerfull at maxed ranks. But they are purely optional and they are not critical to any aspect of the game.

You dont need them to play elite zones.
You dont need them to do quests, dungeons or mission.
You dont need them to explore.
You dont need them to do anything ingame.

Everything ingame is completable without using pve only skills! Why cant you understand that?

Yes adding someone into your team with a max rank and one of these pve only skills will help and yes it will make it easier! But with or without that person in your team you will still be able to complete what ever your doing.

Do you not understand that?

These pve only skills are completely optional and add nothing critical to gameplay that you cant do without them! You just insist on trying to push an issue onto the system even though there isnt one.

All this comes down to is that you want an oober powerfull pve only skill ready and waiting and fully maxed out, without having to put any effort in.

You dont want this because its unbalanced, you want this to make your life easier and to make elite zones easier! It has nothing to do with being unbalanced!

Its not unbalanced in the slightest because the strength of one persons pve only skill does not impact anyone else around them (aside from LB gaze).

If there were aspects of the actual game which were dependant upon the use of any of the pve only skills (other then LB gaze) I would agree about that one individual skill.

I would agree it was unfair! But there isnt..... there no pve only skills aside from LB gaze that you need to use and which are critical to gameplay!

Stop saying there otherwise!

Gattocheese · Sep 10, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Guild Wars i believe is an aquired taste. I am not starting a thread or defending why WoW has more players than GW. But GW started out being a pvp game. Thats what it wanted to be at the start. Thats why its named "Guild Wars" not World of Tyria or whatever...

They are now trying to copy or mirror what other successful pve mmo's are doing. (ex. grind) Is this a bad direction? I dunno. GW is based on skill i do agree, but turning the game into a pve machine, gives you little room. There is no advancement for your characters. I do believe that they need to keep the game based on skill, but you also need to better yourself as a toon. Keep getting cool loot, making your character as leet as possible. Customization is a huge part of peoples wish list. I hope in GW2 that there will be a way to obtain higher levels that include more atributes or better stats for your character. I have never liked the idea that your character is maxed out in as lil as 8 hours. But as far as GWEN being a new title grind, i dont believe so, nothing imo is worth grinding really for. Some people say they bought the game for the story, once you have beaten it, you can put it down and play something else. I would rather have some sort of grind that gives rewards, or content for your character. But again, i am not gonna grind for any title that gives me crappy armor or crappy weapons. Its all about if you want to grind. optional

Clone · Sep 10, 2007, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Every time I hear about grinding, the proponents try to pass it off as not a big deal. However, I see the problem getting worse and worse.

When titles came out, they said it wasn't a big deal if they didn't give you any advantages. I agreed there.

When they started giving people better salvaging ability, they said it wasn't a big deal. I was a bit concerned by the concept, but let it go.

When titles gave you 8 damage reduction and an extra 40% damage against all of Nightfall's endgame content, they said it wasn't a big deal since you didn't need them to get through the game. Would you say a shield with 8 damage reduction (100% chance) and a weapon that does 60% extra damage when customized would be overpowered then?

Now they're saying the NF skills aren't a big deal. Lets take a look at the norn title. The proponents have been using the example only of the +100 health in norn areas. But lets take a look at some of the skills, shall we?

Ursan Blessing - Someone who's maxed the norn title will have an additional +100 hp over someone who didn't. Someone who maxed the norn title will have +10 armor over someone who didn't. Someone who maxed the norn tietle will deal +70 damage more than someone who didn't when using Ursan Strike. Thats a hell of a lot for a skill with a 3 second recharge. And lets not forget, you don't even need to be on Norn turf to use this one.

I could see GW2 coming out with a title track that gives you +9 health regen and immunity to all conditions and hexes. Would that be a big deal? At the rate grinding is giving benefits now, we can't be far off.

Gattocheese · Sep 10, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

But people that say its not fair to give these small advantages to the grinders need to understand that its in pve. I am not playing against you. Why should you care that i can play through the game a tiny bit easier because i grind or work for it. It is all optional. I believe that if there is a pve only skill that gives me a an advantage out against MONSTERS and not PLAYERS then yes, there should be a lil effort into getting the skill.

Lourens · Sep 10, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

Every time I hear about grinding, the proponents try to pass it off as not a big deal. However, I see the problem getting worse and worse.

When titles came out, they said it wasn't a big deal if they didn't give you any advantages. I agreed there.

When they started giving people better salvaging ability, they said it wasn't a big deal. I was a bit concerned by the concept, but let it go.

When titles gave you 8 damage reduction and an extra 40% damage against all of Nightfall's endgame content, they said it wasn't a big deal since you didn't need them to get through the game. Would you say a shield with 8 damage reduction (100% chance) and a weapon that does 60% extra damage when customized would be overpowered then?

Now they're saying the NF skills aren't a big deal. Lets take a look at the norn title. The proponents have been using the example only of the +100 health in norn areas. But lets take a look at some of the skills, shall we?

Ursan Blessing - Someone who's maxed the norn title will have an additional +100 hp over someone who didn't. Someone who maxed the norn title will have +10 armor over someone who didn't. Someone who maxed the norn tietle will deal +70 damage more than someone who didn't when using Ursan Strike. Thats a hell of a lot for a skill with a 3 second recharge. And lets not forget, you don't even need to be on Norn turf to use this one.

I could see GW2 coming out with a title track that gives you +9 health regen and immunity to all conditions and hexes. Would that be a big deal? At the rate grinding is giving benefits now, we can't be far off.

... You forgot 1 important thing the skill is an elite

Elites are overpowered when u look at the regulair skillz
I prefer having an extra meteor shower for 5 energy (Echo) then being a stupid ursan with -2 energy regen lol...

its a crap elite in my opinion and it isnt fun playing either

so i said that

lord dragon · Sep 10, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

OMG what part of these pve only skills dont you understand?

Yes they exist and yes they are oober powerfull at maxed ranks. But they are purely optional and they are not critical to any aspect of the game.

You dont need them to play elite zones.
You dont need them to do quests, dungeons or mission.
You dont need them to explore.
You dont need them to do anything ingame.

Everything ingame is completable without using pve only skills! Why cant you understand that?

Yes adding someone into your team with a max rank and one of these pve only skills will help and yes it will make it easier! But with or without that person in your team you will still be able to complete what ever your doing.

Do you not understand that?

These pve only skills are completely optional and add nothing critical to gameplay that you cant do without them! You just insist on trying to push an issue onto the system even though there isnt one.

All this comes down to is that you want an oober powerfull pve only skill ready and waiting and fully maxed out, without having to put any effort in.

You dont want this because its unbalanced, you want this to make your life easier and to make elite zones easier! It has nothing to do with being unbalanced!

Its not unbalanced in the slightest because the strength of one persons pve only skill does not impact anyone else around them (aside from LB gaze).

If there were aspects of the actual game which were dependant upon the use of any of the pve only skills (other then LB gaze) I would agree about that one individual skill.

I would agree it was unfair! But there isnt..... there no pve only skills aside from LB gaze that you need to use and which are critical to gameplay!

Stop saying there otherwise!

You do need them if you want to PUG. Like you have stated already, you don't go to the elite areas, so you would not know because you don't go there. Your words on that.

So, they do unbalance the game!

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

TabascoSauce · Sep 10, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

@gattocheese. The definition of work is effort and time spent, in pursuit of a reward. That is what you are describing. I can get work, well, when I go to work?

If you want to minimize the skills, by saying "small advantages", then you're wrong. +100 armor across everyone in the party for 6 seconds at a cost of 8 adrenaline is not a small advantage. Jeez, get a few +adrenaline skills and you can have virtually perma +100 armor.

So, uh, your small advantages are actually psycho-crazy powerful skills. Uh huh. And the worst part about it is that they are only gained through repeatedly clearing zones, or for one option in factions doing the same quest for 400 reward (when the top is 10 million) 25 thousand times. Oh yeah, you can get double the faction when you contribute to your alliance, so it is lowered down to a measly 12 thousand 5 hundred times.

Come on. Grind is grind, dood. Its bad. It doesnt belong in a game which was originally touted as having no grind and coining the phrase "skill > time".

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

lord dragon · Sep 10, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

Every time I hear about grinding, the proponents try to pass it off as not a big deal. However, I see the problem getting worse and worse.

When titles came out, they said it wasn't a big deal if they didn't give you any advantages. I agreed there.

When they started giving people better salvaging ability, they said it wasn't a big deal. I was a bit concerned by the concept, but let it go.

When titles gave you 8 damage reduction and an extra 40% damage against all of Nightfall's endgame content, they said it wasn't a big deal since you didn't need them to get through the game. Would you say a shield with 8 damage reduction (100% chance) and a weapon that does 60% extra damage when customized would be overpowered then?

Now they're saying the NF skills aren't a big deal. Lets take a look at the norn title. The proponents have been using the example only of the +100 health in norn areas. But lets take a look at some of the skills, shall we?

Ursan Blessing - Someone who's maxed the norn title will have an additional +100 hp over someone who didn't. Someone who maxed the norn title will have +10 armor over someone who didn't. Someone who maxed the norn tietle will deal +70 damage more than someone who didn't when using Ursan Strike. Thats a hell of a lot for a skill with a 3 second recharge. And lets not forget, you don't even need to be on Norn turf to use this one.

I could see GW2 coming out with a title track that gives you +9 health regen and immunity to all conditions and hexes. Would that be a big deal? At the rate grinding is giving benefits now, we can't be far off.

What I have been trying to explain, but the FANBOI's don't seem to want to admit it.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

Gattocheese · Sep 10, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

skill>time ?

Was it not Anet who said "We wanted to reward the players who have spent literally thousands of hours playing GW with GWEN and the HoM" Watch the demo's, those are almost exact words. I do believe that a person who plays a game more gets more skill, learns more, even if it is repeatative. Skill = Time. I might grind the same area over and over, but i can learn how to kill faster, make stronger builds in the process. I dont really care for most grinds, and i never have, there usually has never been a great enough reward for me to grind. But, if there is something i want, then i will grind it and enjoy it because i am playing for a cause that i think is important to me. And no casual player should mass the same amount as me, with my thousands of hours playing.

TabascoSauce · Sep 10, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

@gattocheese, player skill =/= super powerful skills. A snail tied to a lever can push a button.

+100 armor party-wide is not player skill, it is instant victory. So rewarding players who have played this game for literally thousands of hours with instant-win buttons is.... good policy? Smart?

Oh, but you get those skills by, what was it again, yeah, the word I am looking for, huh, hmmmmm, yeah, maybe it wa- no, not that, um, yeah grind?

Factions tops out at 10 million. That is Duel of the Houses x 12 thousand 5 hundred times if you donate faction to your alliance, and 25 thousand times if not.

Yeah, lets reward that. (?)

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Imaginos · Sep 10, 2007, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Grinding points to get armor sucks, hence why I'll stick with the fissure.

Does seem to based around grind though. Already getting tired of doing long ass quests for 200 whole points..

/agree

won't be buying GW2 if it's based on this same crap as GW:EN.